TRICIA KAGER: Hi, I'm Tricia Kager. I'm the Executive Vice President of risk management and safety for Jordan Foster construction. I'm in Dallas, Texas.
DAMIAN ALVAREZ: Hello, my name is Damian Alvarez. I am the EHS director for Jordan Foster construction, located in Austin, Texas.
ASIMA BIONAZ: And my name is Asima Bionaz. I'm the EHS department's operational manager and I too, am located in Austin, Texas.
TONY MILITELLO: Great. I really appreciate you joining me today. Let me start out with a real broad question. So in the broadest terms, how important is safety to your organization?
TRICIA KAGER: Well, so I'll tell you a little bit about Jordan Foster construction. We have two distinct divisions where we do a building division that does ground up construction, all types of construction across Texas. And then we also have a Civil Division that does heavy highway street and road, also across Texas, predominantly in El Paso, Austin, and San Antonio. And in that specific division, we self-perform work.
So we have anywhere upwards of close to 700 people out in the field every day working in the elements, working in construction, building bridges and roads across Texas. So it's a wide geographical area.
And so making sure that our team has everything they need to be successful related to safety, whether that be the right plan in place, the right skills, and the right personal protective equipment, and the communication to do it well and to do it safely is pretty much a cornerstone of how we've defined our success in our industry. And so it's really one of the most important things that we do.
I serve on the executive leadership team for the organization and safety is integrated in everything we do in operations, and that's how we deliver our work.
TONY MILITELLO: Yeah. Great. Thanks, Tricia. Appreciate it. Tell us a little bit if you can continue. You mentioned, personal protective equipment and communication and some of the programmatic stuff. Can you focus a little bit more on some of the programmatic stuff. What type of programs do you have in place for reducing operational risk?
TRICIA KAGER: Well, one thing that's unique about how we do things is, I am an expert on risk management and safety. I think that is a little bit unique in how we structure our department as well. So we're always looking at safety through the lens of what can we do to prevent everything bad from happening, whether it be crisis management, whether it be operational risk, and then what can we do to mitigate it.
And so as far as risk management is concerned, we actually drill it down to what is our total cost of risk and how do we measure that, and then how do we identify it so that we know we're doing everything we can. And then from an operational perspective, in a day to day perspective, I think Damian could shed some light on some of the things that we do every day to make sure that we're successful.
DAMIAN ALVAREZ: On top of the many programs that we have in place, just like most other companies, excavation programs, fall protection programs, we have all those in place. But the two that I think really helps us is our field safety leader program. Our leaders without titles. They're guys out in the field.
Some of them are our lead minorities. Some of them are just a carpenter or a laborer, but we pull them out of the field. We take notice of the guys that are-- people are gathering around to ask questions. We pluck them out of the field for a whole year.
They get lessons in safety, leadership, mental health on a monthly basis, and then they go back and they share all this wealth of knowledge with their crews that they're with every day. That's one of the biggest programs I think, that has really helped us out, that leads up to what Tricia is doing with the executive group, total cost of risk and all that.
The other part is the catalyst program, which we also have and might be getting-- because I was reading the questions. And this is the catalyst program which our EF cells go through in their own way. The catalyst program is another program where we teach them more about soft skills along with management.
We have project management, we have operations managers in these classes where we're teaching soft skills, leadership. And we're teaching them how to be leaders that are worth following, not leaders that have to be followed. That has also really helped us out.
TONY MILITELLO: Great. Thanks. Asima, for as long as I've known you, you have been a zealot about operational risk and prevention and risk reduction. I know your finger is on the pulse of operational risk. Tell me what's been most impactful or what do you observe as being most impactful.
ASIMA BIONAZ: I think one of the most impactful things that we do here at Jordan Foster construction, and it really is on the stem of not only education and making sure that we have the same communication, but we are always on the forefront of this ever evolving industry where we make sure that we're not stagnant. we have softwares and programs that are in place.
Quite honestly, I've said this many, many times our secret weapon is Tricia. And when I say that is because- yes, she is because she always is looking in a forward direction. And that is something that I have grown to admire because it is very important when you are in a place where you're on top of something, it's very easy to be comfortable because everything is the way that you think it should go.
But we are in an ever evolving industry, so not only is it the programs that we have in place, not only is it the leadership language where we have opportunities of growth, not only is it the emphasis of mental health awareness and reducing the stigma, not only is it of the Women's Leadership council that we have within Jordan Foster, but it is also at the backbone. It is our technology.
We use technology and we make sure that the data that we gather from the field is not just data that we look at. The storytelling of that data is extremely important. And one thing that we have been the movers and shakers of within the EHS converse department is that we make sure that whatever data at a craft level is brought to us, we are able to take that data and we are able to translate that on a weekly, monthly and on a quarterly basis to not only our operational teams, but our executive teams are brought into this conversation as well.
All of us have to work very, very well together. It is not just safety's responsibility. It is the entire company's responsibility to send people home the same way that they show up on a job site. And the data that we get and the processes that we put in place and the investment in technology is extremely important.
We have Mine Forge, we have Smart Taggert, we have ACFS. These are just a small portion of on the safety side of what we use. We have an incredible team that does extreme work on looking at the data and making sure that it's translated and making sure that we have a pulse on what we need to be looking at next.
TONY MILITELLO: You heard me say zealous, right. Again, there is no greater passionate colleague and professional than you. And again, obviously, Jordan Foster is blessed to have you.
ASIMA BIONAZ: Thank you, Tony.
TONY MILITELLO: You served up the next question on a silver platter. I'm going to pass it back to you, Tricia. When you talk about technology, which has really introduced and how that impacts the control of safety and risk management, both of the hats that you wear, can you talk a little bit about technology and areas that she may not have mentioned.
But then also, I know that something that's always on the tip of people's tongues is innovation, right. What's innovative? Can you talk a little bit about those two. And then we'll swing back to Damian and Asima. But safety, technology and innovation and how those are impacting your risk management.
TRICIA KAGER: Yeah, absolutely. So I do believe that one of the things that's always been overlooked and having come into the industry as a safety professional, that's frustrating to me is the people that have the most knowledge and the most skill set related to the work that's being performed often are overlooked and we don't hear from them or we're not able to provide information to them and communicate with them on a regular basis.
So that's why we decided to partner with Mine Forge in particular, because their whole mission is to be communicating with the field. And of course, anytime you implement technology, there's fits and starts and challenges and changes. But for the most part, being able to look at how do you engage with the field and how do you hear from them directly so that you can make better decisions, instead of safety or risk management people sitting somewhere trying to make decisions for them.
The technology also helps us figure out how to guide and shape the field safety leaders and the catalyst program, creating that common language of leadership for everyone. On the risk management side, it's of course, who are we partnering with? Who are we bringing on site? Which are the trade partners that we utilize?
And we use Compass and bespoke to make sure that we're prequalifying all of our trade partners, to make sure that we are making good decisions. When we were planning our work and starting off by making sure that the trade partners have that same commitment to safety.
And then when we see challenges, we look at that as a mentoring opportunity. So that is an opportunity to make sure that we're not going to define means and methods, but we are going to guide and promote and help lead as well. And so I think that's what we do best as far as innovation is concerned.
There's some pretty cool stuff going on lately with AI, and we're on the cusp of implementing and expanding our relationship with factor lab, where we're actually utilizing AI in the field to help do better daily planning conversations and have the information in the hands of the people that are doing those. So it's amazing to see how all that's going to change over time.
And our goal is to make sure that we don't get left behind and that we continue to innovate and be at the forefront. Like Asima said, we're always changing and we're always evolving. In this industry now more than ever, we have to. Construction was left behind for a minute there and not anymore. Technology is expected now and we have to be at the forefront of it.
TONY MILITELLO: Yeah. Great. Thanks. Damian, you've got your finger on the pulse of the workforce, and you are a fabulous and really frictionless conduit between the executive leadership and the craft workers. In your opinion, how receptive are the craft workers to the technology and innovation that is really paramount to success?
DAMIAN ALVAREZ: I sincerely believe that there was all of prohibition that said, construction workers out in the field don't want technology. They just want to do their job and all that. And what we have to look to is as a changing aspects of who's doing the work to because I had heard all the time, they don't want to use their phone. They don't want to do that.
But the minute you gave you give them a tool just like you do give a person a shovel or whatever, they learn to use it and they learn to use it to the best of their ability. And what I've learned is, technology is the same way you give it to them. And especially with all the apps now that are around for everything else, how we didn't have apps for a long time is beyond me.
Because now that we do have them and you give it to them and especially when they're modeled and based off of current- let's say, other social media programs and they're kind of similar. The guys grasp to it, they take it and they start using it. The guys out in the field, they want to show you what they're doing.
There's a saying that goes, drive 10 miles with a construction worker and they're going to point out to you every building and every road that they've worked on. It's the same way with technology. They want to show you what they're doing. They want to show you the great things that we're doing.
So I think there was a stigma that construction workers were not receptive to technology. But I find that is it's actually the opposite. They are very receptive. They want to use it. They want to show you what they're doing. And especially if it's going to help them do their tasks better and do it safer, they are more for it. They're for it.
TRICIA KAGER: And if I can add, there's always a situation where there are going to be some people that come from a place of yes, and there are going to be some people that come from a place of no. But with catalyst, with our leadership language, with these communicative internal conversations that we have as a company, it's breaking down the silos. It's making sure that we have enough champions.
We have a very good process with our EHS converse department. Before we send something out, we make sure we test it amongst ourselves. We look at all the barriers and we create hurdles out of them. And then we encourage our operations teams to be a part of it.
Technology there will always be one or two here and there that just can't grasp it. But we have in place champions and people who are willing to help and willing to teach. We have an all-hands on deck philosophy here, where we make sure that everybody has a seat at the table.
And we look at technology even for the lowest common denominator of who is going to be comfortable with it, who is going to be a little bit difficult when it comes to the change aspect of it. But we learn to address it and we learn to overcome it together.
DAMIAN ALVAREZ: I'm sorry, one of the things that I think has really worked for us too, is we have our more seasoned team members. And we have our younger ones who have just come in and started in their journey in this field. The young ones really need to get all that knowledge that those older seasoned guys have. And then the young ones know how to use all the technology. You pair them together and you have a team that can be unstoppable.
We have some teams like that where we have a seasoned construction team member with a younger one, and they're getting all that knowledge of how to build the bridge, how to build the building, what do you need to do. And then he's helped. They're helping, he or she is helping with all the technology. We have found that has really worked.
TRICIA KAGER: We do cater and try to emphasize and we do try to cater to everyone's strength. Everyone has a purpose, everyone has a job, and everyone has a role.
TONY MILITELLO: Yeah, that's great. The one other thing that I suspect you found too or will find certainly back to Damian's point about the younger part of the workforce. I've also found technology of whatever kind and it almost really in whatever industry is a huge recruiting tool. And it's a good recruiting tool.
These individuals are either coming from a trade school or like you said, they're very familiar with using these type of applications or technology in their personal life or they've come from formal education setting, and they want to work for an employer that is going to meet them where they are or push them to go further.
They didn't suffer through, and know my term right in quotes, suffer through formal education or mentoring program or an intern program only to come out and say, yeah, we have a great job opportunity for you. But by the way, the technology is in the 19th century. That's not attractive, in terms of recruiting folks.
So let's go back. I'm going to go in reverse order, go Asima first. So what do you think is one of the most significant operational risks. And in terms of what lies ahead for how you want to address that. And I'll ask the same question again to Damian and then Tricia last.
ASIMA BIONAZ: So what in front of us is a big operational risk.
TONY MILITELLO: What's a current operational risk that you want to tackle next?
ASIMA BIONAZ: So quite honestly, you know me Tony, everyone here knows me, mental health awareness. I mean, it is huge. We are just at the tip of the iceberg of it. Jordan Foster is very custom made. We look at the people that we have within our organization and we create programs and we move forward at making sure that we identify not only the physical safety, but we also emphasize the psychological safety.
And a huge part of that is when we have experiences or we observe experiences that could have happened and how we can capitalize from it. Part of our CPR program in giving CPR, we created the mind saver program. What is the psychological aspect of someone that has given CPR? What could happen as a result of it? That is a huge focus of continuing the training, as we give CPR training to all Jordan Foster employees, especially for the project job sites.
So mental health awareness it's huge for me because at the end of the day, it's teaching people to break down the stigma and not only to be able to talk about it, but for us to observe and identify people who may need help and may not know how to ask for it. So that is the biggest focus for me on my purview moving forward for this year.
TONY MILITELLO: Great. Damian, what about you?
DAMIAN ALVAREZ: I believe one of the biggest that's coming up for us in the next-- I think it's starting now and it's going to continue in the next couple of years is what I was saying is that we have some seasoned I think most all over the nation have seasoned team members who are starting to think about retirement in the next 5 to 10 years.
And it looks like we have a decent amount of people coming into construction, but not enough to fill all those spots. I've been reading a lot of articles and AGC information that they put out and it's like, we're going to be at a very reduced workforce. I do believe people are going to start coming where the work is at. But that's a lot of people at one time that are going to have-
As a safety person, I'm looking at all those people coming in at one time, at one job site who will have to be trained, educated, brought on board, to do things that Jordan Foster way. And this is the article I read that really hit me. I read it on a plane just this week.
A certain fast food chain they say my pleasure after every order. It took them six years to get that culture in place from the time that they started. And they started just to say my pleasure. It took them six years to get everybody to doing it without thinking and it being just second nature, second thought, and that really hit me because all they saying is my pleasure.
And here we are teaching fall protection, excavation, reports, near misses, observations. And as safety people I think sometimes we're looking at it, it's like man, they're not doing what we asked. One firm six years to do one thing. And with all the crop of new team members that are coming in and the old one and seasoned going out, to me it puts like a big exclamation point on things that we're going to see in the future.
TONY MILITELLO: Yeah, no, I really appreciate that. My background has spent 25 years with the Navy, Marine Corps team. And that's something in terms of repetition of messaging. People always used to ask, well, why do we have to have the same training every year and why are we repeating the same messages?
The Navy, Marine Corps team inducts 50,000 new 18-year-olds every year. Put your mind around that. And so those are people that have never heard that message. Damian, to your point, we want those 50,000 18-year-olds to be as safe as the 50,000 28-year-olds and 38-year-olds and 48-year-olds and 58-year-olds.
And so the 58-year-olds may have heard it for the last 40 years, but it's new to somebody. And so keep it on top of that really remains important. Tricia, how about you? What are the things that you see as being on the forefront of and really the next operational risk or risk that you're really trying to get after?
TRICIA KAGER: I think that from a overall perspective, what Damian touched upon speaks to the industry itself having a reputational risk of people not wanting to join our industry. So where do you fill the pipeline of future people that want to even come into construction?
We have a lot of competition with other industries and that idea that I want to follow my family member or my role model into my industry has gone away in our industry. And I know this has been something that people have been talking about now for probably at least seven or eight years. And yet coming up with the solution is the challenge.
So one of the things that Jordan Foster has done is we talk about building Texas together. And our goal is to be the employer of choice in Texas in the construction industry. And one thing that we do have going for us is, we have several family members that to this day have been able to recruit their family members to our industry and to our company.
So for example, for the Construction Safety Excellence Award, we brought with us two brothers. One is our safety manager and one of our equipment operators, Servando and Jorge. And then we also brought the Volta family who are a grandfather, father, and son team, all working for our company.
So that ability to create an environment where safety has a lot to do with that. So is it safe enough for you to bring your son to work here. That speaks volumes to the culture of an organization. And I do think it's being very intentional about how do we recruit and retain our talent? And where do we find those stories so that we can make sure that we're creating that environment where people want to work here?
The industry has a bad reputation for being tough and rough and tumble and celebrating that dominating leadership style. And it's not necessarily the case anymore. And I see it changing, but it takes people being intent, companies being intentional and rewarding that type of liberating style of leadership.
TONY MILITELLO: Yeah. Thanks, Tricia. I mean, you are clearly clairvoyant. You used every word and phrase that I had in mind for the next question. Recruiting, retention, attraction. Why do you want to work there? So I'm going to ask this question and then in reverse order.
Fill in the blank or complete this sentence. If you are out at a job fair or career fair or see somebody at the store and say, hey, I work at Jordan Foster construction, come join our team because this is where we stand out. This is why you would want to work for us as opposed to, again, you've got a myriad of choices, but this is what makes us different. This is what makes us stand out. Tricia what would that be?
TRICIA KAGER: Did you say one word? Just one word.
TONY MILITELLO: A phrase. Fill in the blank. What makes us different? What's the one thing that makes us different?
TRICIA KAGER: We have a very entrepreneurial spirit. So if you want to come and work at Jordan Foster, we're not so prescribed in this latter mentality. I remember when I was young and I was starting out and I worked for an insurance company and I looked ahead of me and there was 10 other people all waiting to get the job in the corner office. And I was like, yeah, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. So I left.
There's definitely positions where there's a ladder, but there's also opportunities where it looks more like a ball of yarn. But our goal is to create career pathways and opportunities where you're learning and you're growing and maybe it's not necessarily where you get that next rung of the ladder with the title, but it's a career pathway where you're doing rewarding work and you're making a difference.
And that you can stick around a while and learn and grow and realize the plethora of opportunities that the construction industry and companies like Jordan Foster have to offer.
TONY MILITELLO: Awesome. Damian, how about you? You're hanging out upcoming holiday weekend and you're chatting with friends and some of them are saying, boy, you really seem totally excited about working for Jordan Foster construction. Why would I want to work there? What's so exciting about working there?
DAMIAN ALVAREZ: I've always said that I really, really care for Jordan Foster and what they do is that they leave us- how can I say? There's a question that I know everybody asks, how is leadership important to safety? And the answer it's always yes. But why is it important?
And here I'd like to say, I've been around construction almost my whole adult life. And the one thing that Jordan fosters we are not married to a certain way of doing things. It is not set in stone. If we see something that can be done in a more efficient manner and keep it still safe and we find a different process and procedure, they let us experiment. They let us beta test new technology.
We're going to keep doing JHS the way we've always kept doing it because that's the way it is. No, it's hey, we have this idea of instead of having paper, let's have a conversation about what we're doing so we can actually see what the guys are talking about in those THS or JHS whatever you want to call them.
And we take that to our operations and our executive leadership and Tricia and they say, let's try it out. Let's see if it makes a difference or if it doesn't. So when it does, then we can explore it further. And if it doesn't, hey, we might have to try it another year or maybe we didn't do it right this time.
But it's the freedom to explore and change and make actual changes and call the guys in from the field who are actually going to be doing this type of work and say, hey, did this work? Did this not work? What could have been done better?
Try this out for three months. Tell us what you think. And we meet with them on a monthly basis. Hey, what happened? Did this work? Did it not work? So to me, it'd be the freedom to change and change for the better, not just for the sake of changing.
TONY MILITELLO: Awesome. Awesome. Asima, what about you? You're hanging out with friends- What's your pitch to come join the team?
ASIMA BIONAZ: So my pitch is that Jordan Foster construction is not your traditional construction company. We are an evolving construction company with the evolving nature of the business that we're in. And at the core of it, I am a huge example of the fact that it's not that Jordan Foster only invested in me. Jordan foster gave me the opportunity to invest in myself.
What I mean by that is that seven years ago, I was the add who worked part time for this department. And every position I had as I moved up in this department was a position that was never heard of before. It was created for the need of the evolution, of where the trajectory of our industry was going.
And through that course, when I brought to Tricia and Damian the idea of an operational EHS as an operations manager for the EHS department, something that in construction operations managers are very different when you hear about the kind of roles they play.
For me, it was something that was very out of the box, very different, and they didn't scoff at it and they didn't marginalize it. They didn't even say no to it. They sat down and heard it and understood what I was saying and agreed with it.
So the idea of them investing in me was extremely important. It was a company that supported their decisions, but it also allowed me a seat at the table to advocate for myself. So that is what I would say about Jordan Foster construction.
TONY MILITELLO: Awesome. Awesome. So I'm going to switch a little bit up to a question about leadership. And Asima I know what you think of your leader, so I'm going to skip over you and go to Tricia. Tricia, again, from you, you're on the executive committee, from you again, upward and across to your peers and your senior leaders, what's your impression of how they support safety and risk management in the organization?
TRICIA KAGER: I'm very fortunate to be at a company. I've been in other places and I've been in the safety industry for many years and have had several opportunities to see how it's done in other areas. One of the reasons I'm here at Jordan Foster is I get 100% support.
We have conversations about things in the executive c-suite that other companies aren't talking about. The support that we have for what we've done with mental well-being in the workplace and construction is 100% support from not only our executive team but our board of directors as well.
So it's very much a place where you can go in and say, I want to make an impact. I have an idea. I can change something and I can influence something. And they really do stand behind everything that we're trying to do. And I don't see our department as separate from operations. I see it as in lockstep with operations and I think other companies say that. And we actually do it.
When operations and the executive c-suite team understands that, when we're operating on all cylinders, when our people know what they're doing and we give them the tools they need to be successful, safety is a byproduct of that. I'm one of the ones that believes that one of these days we won't need the word safety. It's just operational excellence. This is how we do business.
TONY MILITELLO: Yeah, that's awesome. Appreciate it Tricia. So we'll start again in reverse order. Asima will start with you. Any final comments or anything that you want to add before we have a chance to sign off here.
ASIMA BIONAZ: Just obviously, thank you so much for the opportunity to always highlight what Jordan Foster construction is doing for this industry. We are an extremely lucky group of people that we not only have the ability of working for a company that allows us the opportunity for growth, but also that we are able to come across other people in industry.
And the AGC has been an extremely important part of us being able to get the message out, especially not only on our safety practices but as well as our mental health practices as well, which for me personally is one of the most important aspects of what we do here.
TONY MILITELLO: Yeah appreciate it. So Damian, I appreciate you taking the time to join us on this podcast. It's going to have-- the intent is obviously to have a broad audience of individuals that are looking to you and your leadership for the next piece of advice, the piece of advice that might make the difference in their lives. What would that be? What piece of advice would you offer to your peers and colleagues that might make a difference in their lives?
DAMIAN ALVAREZ: That is a good one. The piece of advice is never get comfortable. It's good to feel to sometimes stop and smell the roses, as they say. But then after that deep breath, don't get comfortable. Keep walking and see what lies ahead.
We can never get too comfortable when we become stagnant. We have to always just keep learning and adapting to our ever evolving construction culture and all the new tools and everything that's coming out. We have to keep evolving just the way our team members are evolving.
TONY MILITELLO: And I appreciate it. And Tricia, how about you, any final words?
TRICIA KAGER: I'm really grateful to what you all do at the AGC and to Willis Towers Watson for sponsoring the Construction Safety Excellence Award. I've been very fortunate, I did this years ago when I was here the first time and then the last four years. I immediately looked at this as, I mean, it's a very big application, but what it is, it's a roadmap to excellence.
And if you're a company that's trying to figure out should I apply or not, I would absolutely 100% say apply because the process of going through the application and writing out your answers for these questions about what makes your company unique and what do you do different related to safety, that's the gold standard of safety.
And so I know as safety professionals, we're always striving to get to the next level wherever you are. But that roadmap will teach you how to improve and how to become excellent. So I commend the work that you all do and that the AGC does to support all of these initiatives, whether it be the culture of care initiative, the Construction Safety Excellence Award. I'm just really proud to be a part of it. And thank you very much.
TONY MILITELLO: Great. Thanks, Tricia. Again, all three of you, I really appreciate your time today and all that you do to demonstrate your leadership and commitment to the construction industry. And with that, I'll turn it back over to you, Max.
MAX NELSON: Thank you for listening to another episode of the podcast series dedicated to winners of the 2024 AGC Construction Safety Excellence Awards. We hope you are taking away insights that can be applied to your own programs and processes. For more information on the CSEA, visit www.agc.org/csea. If you found value in today's episode, don't forget to like and follow the show.
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