So, we are delighted to jump into our AOA series with none other than Catrina Gilbert from DFW International Airport. I'm going to allow her to introduce herself and give you a little bit about her background. Catrina, would you mind?
CATRINA GILBERT: Not at all. Thank you so very much for having me. I greatly appreciate you and the WTW team for inviting me to take part in this amazing podcast. Just to give you a little bit of background about myself, again, my name is Katrina Gilbert. I'm the Vice President of Risk Management at Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. I've been here for a little over 7 years. I absolutely love it. I have been in risk management; this month marks my 25th anniversary in risk management.
I've done risk management in of course, transportation, aviation, retail, the medical field, janitorial companies, you name it, I have had an opportunity to do risk management in it. And I've been so very blessed to have such a long tenured career that has continued to grow throughout my time frame.
So really excited about that career path. And prior to coming on to Dallas Fort Worth International Airport, I was the risk manager at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. So, as you can tell, I have a thing for planes, trains and automobiles.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Well, you just enlightened me on something. I knew about the Hartsfield role but talk to me about some of those earlier risk management roles because that sounded a little bit unique there.
CATRINA GILBERT: My first job out of college was in risk management. And it was for a company called Georgia School Boards Association. And when you get outside of metro Atlanta, a lot of the other school systems are in rural areas, or not as populated as the metro Atlanta area. And some of those school systems would pay into a pool that was managed by the Georgia School Boards Association.
And we managed all of their insurance claims, comms and marketing, legal, all of those things that they would pay a small fee to participate in the school board organization. So, I was responsible then of reviewing all of those policies and putting together something similar to Cliffs Notes for all of the different counties in the state of Georgia that were a part of the school board organization. So really, really enjoyed that opportunity.
It gave me an opportunity to read policies from beginning to end. And that was really that foundation. I just realized how the devil really is in the details, or we'll say the angel. The angel is in the details. And reading and understanding policies and having that foundation really sparked something in me of saying, I really enjoyed this risk management industry. Had heard nothing about risk management up until that first job.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Understood. And you mentioned a janitorial company?
CATRINA GILBERT: Janitorial company, the company is ABM industries. That stands for American Building Maintenance. And they did a lot of janitorial services, Fortune 500 companies, World Trade Center, a lot of airports, malls. And I was responsible for their risk that was taking place at airports. So that's when I first got that little touch of the aviation bug. So, any janitorial services.
We also had parking, engineering, electrical. Any of those services that were taking place on an airport property or any airports, where we were trying to get a contract for those services, those facilities, those locations were my responsibility. So that was my first step into aviation was at ABM.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: And I was going to ask because I've seen that name before in airports. And I was going to ask, how did you transition from the educational K-12 arena over into aviation? That's quite a bit of a leap. But there is the story. There's the trend line. I see where it came in at now.
CATRINA GILBERT: It was just one of those things of when I left education, I went into health care. And when I was working in health care, I had a boss that went over to ABM industries. And maybe a year later, she called and said, hey, there's this amazing opportunity, are you interested?
Of course, I'm interested. And so, I will always tell people that your network really is your net worth. The people that you will meet along the way, the relationships that you foster in any industry, but especially in risk management, will really go a long way.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Agree 100%.
CATRINA GILBERT: That's how we met. Look at that.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: You just never know how it's going to work out.
CATRINA GILBERT: Exactly.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: And one of the things that I think is truly indicative of an excellent risk manager, quite frankly, is having an expansive network. Because in risk management, you certainly recognize that you cannot do it all by yourself. I don't care how smart you are, there are some areas that you are just, quite frankly, not adept at. And so, you want to have a consortium of people around you to say, I can pull from this shelf and this shelf to help me out.
CATRINA GILBERT: Exactly.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: So, I'm glad you're letting our listeners hear and learn that. Because that's quite a path to go from education over to health care to aviation and you just never know how that works. Well, that's good. Well, I did note this.
Since we're talking about authorities and we're talking about aviation specifically today, you mentioned obviously being at Hartsfield before. And we're talking about Atlanta, the, I believe, the busiest airport in the world by enplanements, according to the FAA, if I'm not mistaken. I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 million plus a year.
You're also now currently at DFW, which is, again, another major commercial airport. And I think it's within the top five. So, you have--
CATRINA GILBERT: We're the third busiest. Let me just pull that in for you.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Oh, you're the third?
CATRINA GILBERT: Yes. Not just the top five, we're the third.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: All right, top three.
CATRINA GILBERT: There you go, top three.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: OK. I'm just curious, working for some of the top aviation authorities in the world, quite frankly, what sort of distinctions do you-- and you haven't worked for two of them, what sort of distinctions do you see between DFW and ATL that you're allowed to speak about?
CATRINA GILBERT: I will say, the one thread that goes through both airports would be their immense commitment to their employees. Both airports really focused on their employees, making sure employees were excited and passionate about the work that they provided and the way that they were treated and valued. So that was one thing that was very, very similar at both airports.
One of the things that's been a little bit different from a risk management perspective, Dallas Fort Worth has an enterprise risk management program. At Hartsfield-Jackson, we had a risk management program. So, seeing all of the different ways in which risk can really run through a complete organization from a holistic perspective and having the opportunity to work with a number of airports and a number of departments, I really have a broader knowledge and a broader base from an enterprise risk management perspective at Dallas Fort Worth.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Understood. So, from your vantage point, how would you describe the distinction between a ERM program at whatever stage of maturity it may be versus a risk management program?
CATRINA GILBERT: I will say, a risk management program, I would look at that as a true foundation, as having a robust risk program. You have your insurance. You have your claims. And you have some mitigation strategies in place.
When you foster an enterprise risk management program, it goes back to that, realizing that you can't do it alone. And therefore, you really rely heavily on many departments across the organization. So, I work very closely with our finance, operations, security, design code and construction, procurement. And it is really looking at the holistic risk management program, everything from your financial risk, your reputational risk, your operating risks, and looking at ways to implement mitigation strategies across the board.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Got you. Got you. So, you mentioned operational, financial, describe-- because I've realized that a lot of people don't know this. And to be honest, I was a little clueless myself prior to getting ready to have a conversation with you. But describe for our listeners just a little bit about how airports work and how they intertwine with that public entity and quasi status of government and things of that nature. How are airports funded?
CATRINA GILBERT: A lot of the ways in which we are funded, a huge part has to do with grant funding. We have an entire department that's really focused on grant funding, grant assurances, grant requirements. And so, we're really focused on ensuring that we're funded properly. We work really closely with a lot of our different airlines and stakeholders. Everything from concessionaires to parking, all of that rolls into how airports are funded.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Got you. So where is the-- where's the crossover to the public entity area?
CATRINA GILBERT: I'd say that crossover in the public entity area from a risk perspective has a lot to do with how we support the community. One of the ways we cross over on the risk side of the house would be our rolling owner-controlled insurance program. When you think about the cost of insurance and how expensive it is for any business to operate on an airport premises, thinking on the construction side, but particularly your small and minority-owned organizations and construction companies, the cost of insurance can definitely be a barrier in them entering into work at an airport.
Our rolling owner-controlled insurance program, DFW provides that insurance. We work very closely with our broker to implement an amazing program that provides that insurance and alleviates that barrier and really supports the community in doing so.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: So, do you all have a governing authority or any type of status as it relates from a government standpoint?
CATRINA GILBERT: We do, and I probably should have started that conversation with that. So, Dallas Fort Worth International Airport, we are owned by the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth. And we have a governing board that's appointed by the mayors of those two cities. And they are board of directors. And we work really closely with our board of directors to ensure that we're operating efficiently and effectively and that we're providing the services that are needed to the community, the North Texas region, and globally.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Understood. OK, very interesting. I guess, in that regard, is it a little-- can it be challenges and recognizing that you might have to be responsive to not only your actual passengers but the community at large from a public standpoint, as well as a very, very sizable private entities that are worth billions and billions of dollars? How do you serve all of those capacities at the same time?
CATRINA GILBERT: That is a great question. I wouldn't look at it as a challenge. I really look at it as an opportunity to be a really efficient organization. We have an amazing executive team, senior staff, and CEO that really work tirelessly not only with our board but with also our community leaders and members as well.
I really think that when you're the size of DFW and you have the footprint, that you owe it not only to the employees but to the community at large to really keep them informed and to do the right things that's not only going to grow DFW but grow the community. The North Texas region is growing extremely fast. And growth sometimes is a good thing. They say, everything's bigger in Texas, and that is definitely true with the size of our airport.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: And speaking of which, I just have to tell you, the first time I went to DFW, I was upset. A toll? I have to pay a toll to go get to my plane. Let me tell you something, I was not really happy. But you do operate pretty much a small city. Describe the--
CATRINA GILBERT: Oh, it's a city.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Yeah, describe, for our listeners, some of the parameters of what you have to deal with from emergency response to roadway to all of that. What do you have at DFW?
CATRINA GILBERT: First, I will say we are a city. We have our own city designation. So if you want to mail me something, you will mail it to my name, our PO box. And the city is DFW Airport with our very own zip code.
We have our own fire department. We have our own police department. We have a couple of clinics, three hotels. So, it really is a city.
The landmass is a little bit larger than the island of Manhattan, just to give you an idea of the sheer size of DFW. So, we really are responsible for all of those things when you think about risk, all of your liability issues and concerns, property claims, everything from cyber, our directors and officers. We have a ton of volunteers.
There are fire departments that will fly into DFW for training. So, there's responsibilities and risks there. You name it, all of those challenges are met very well with a risk management team of about 12 people.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Oh my. Well, let's just say that your day is never not busy. So, I'm actually going to start—
CATRINA GILBERT: Never a dull moment.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Yeah, I'm going to let you get back to it in a few moments. But for some of our listeners who may be at a smaller or a regional type airport that may just have, just quite frankly, just a few less enplanements than you all do, even though you are obviously one of the largest primary commercial service airports in the industry. What would you recommend to them that they might do to enhance their airport risk management skills? Any associations they could become a part of or conferences you think that they can learn from?
CATRINA GILBERT: Yes, there are a couple of amazing opportunities. One would be Airports Council International. That's a great opportunity, a great chance to learn a little bit more not only about aviation. But if you're interested in risk management, there's a risk management committee.
There are a number of designations and certifications, everything from your ARM, your Associate in Risk Management, organizations such as AAAE. So, there are so many ways you can get involved in aviation, get further involved in risk management and really grow your risk management program, regardless of the size of the airport. I know in some airports, the risk manager may also be your safety manager, could also be your CFO. So, you're wearing a number of hats. And those organizations can definitely support you in building a robust risk management program.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Excellent. I'm glad to hear that. What, if any, do you think-- because obviously, you've got the experience. You've been at against some of the largest airports we have in existence. What, if anything, do you see on the horizon that maybe gives you concern or gives you a little pause, maybe keeps you up at night?
CATRINA GILBERT: There are two things. One, I would say cyber is, of course, one of those things that probably has been top of mind for a number of risk managers for years and will likely continue to be top of mind. But the next thing I would say is AI. There's so much with AI. There are so many ways that it's advancing.
And it's almost happening a little bit faster than most programs can keep up with or track. And it's going to be interesting to watch how AI continues to develop and change how organizations operate. Even on the risk side of the house, that is something that I know we will hear and see a whole lot more of in the coming years.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Well, it seems like as soon as you make a policy about something, it changes by the time you even get it printed.
CATRINA GILBERT: Exactly.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: You can't keep up with how fast the innovation is replicating and adjusting itself as a part of the process.
CATRINA GILBERT: Correct.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: There's certainly to be something to be said about the cautionary tales and signs that can be associated with these advancements in technology.
CATRINA GILBERT: That is true. And as risk managers, sometimes, we're all gloom and doom and well, what if and that could happen and that could happen. I think with AI, there's going to be an opportunity to really recognize ways in which organizations can operate differently. And that could mean efficiently. It could mean a little bit more effectively introducing more innovation.
So, I think there's an opportunity there for some great outcomes. But, of course, with those great opportunities, there are also some opportunities for some people that may not have the best of intentions when it comes to AI. So, it is going to be interesting to watch and see how that develops.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: OK. Well, final thing here is I'd always like to let our listeners know because they may be interested in trying to follow into Catrina's footsteps. Now, I don't know if they can go from education to health care to airport services to airport. But at the end of the day, if you had any advice or tips that you wanted to leave to some of our listeners, who are going, wow, I'd like to do that, too, one day, or I'd like to move into that role, what, if any, advice would you give to them?
CATRINA GILBERT: The advice that I would provide is to find your passion. Whatever it is that you're passionate about, I guarantee you risk management is a part of it. If you're passionate about sports, there's a risk management program in every Major League Baseball, NFL, NBA, you name it, there's a risk management component. If it's fashion, I saw that Louis Vuitton had a risk management position. There's an opportunity there for you.
So, find your passion. And where you find your passion, you will also find an opportunity to really participate in a risk management program. And if it's not there, there's your opportunity to bring it there. So, it's totally up to you where you go in risk management.
It goes back to that Dr. Seuss book, Oh, The Places You'll Go. Oh, the places you can go in risk management. You didn't know I was going to bring Dr. Seuss in, did you?
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Well, I'm laughing because I'm just like, OK, so now, you might be switching over to fashion because I could see you doing a little Gucci or something like that.
CATRINA GILBERT: You know what, if they're listening. No, but seriously, I'm very happy in aviation. There is never a dull moment, all of the ways in which we connect people around the world. And to me, that's exciting. And that's what fuels my passion.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Well, wonderful. Well, I got to tell you, this has certainly been helpful for me, enlightening. I appreciate your energy, your enthusiasm, certainly the education, and the aspect of aviation risk management and how you have a small city on your hands that has a lot of transient actors on a day-to-day basis.
I know, I've been in and out of there a few times in the past couple of weeks. So, thank you, I appreciate that. I will say, work on some of your signage. But that's just a parting note. [INTERVIEWER LAUGHING]
CATRINA GILBERT: I appreciate feedback from the traveling public at all times. The next time you're flying through, please let me know.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: I will. I'm like, which way do I go? But you're right, I always have some construction, something going on out there. So, I'm glad that you're all doing those enhancements. So again, I just want to say thank you. And we appreciate your time and your participation.
CATRINA GILBERT: Thank you for the invitation.
TWANE DUCKWORTH: Well, we hope you've enjoyed this engaging and exciting time having a conversation for our U of Risk series, Authorities on Authorities. That is what we're talking about here at WTW with Catrina Gilbert from DFW International Airport's Aviation Authority. We're so excited that she was able to join us.
I'm sure you got something out of it. I know we did. Please look forward to our next podcast in our AOA series to discuss various public sector and public entity authorities that interact with you on a daily basis. Whether it's flight, whether it's transit, whether it's services to your home, we're so excited to be able to bring you foremost thinking risk management ideas and principles from those who help provide services to our daily life. Thank you.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you for joining us for this WTW podcast, featuring the latest thinking on the intersection of people, capital, and risk. WTW hopes you found the general information provided in this podcast informative and helpful. The information contained herein is not intended to constitute legal or other professional advice and should not be relied upon in lieu of consultation with your own legal advisors.
In the event you would like more information regarding your insurance coverage, please do not hesitate to reach out to us. In North America, WTW offers insurance products through licensed entities, including Willis Towers Watson Northeast incorporated in the United States and Willis Canada incorporated in Canada.
