TWANE: Hello, and welcome to another episode of U of Risk, our series for women in risk in education, to let you hear from some of the most respected experts in the field from university and college risk management responsibilities around the United States.
We're so excited to have with us today, Nakeschi Watkins, the Risk Manager for Cornell University, a venerable institute. And we are excited to allow her to introduce herself personally and tell you a little bit about who she is and what she does. So, Nakeschi, if you don't mind.
NAKESCHI WATKINS: Well, thanks Twane for the invite. I'm Nakeschi Watkins. I'm the Director of Risk Management and Insurance at Cornell University, located in Ithaca, New York, Geneva, New York, New York City, Washington, DC, Rome, Italy, and Qatar.
TWANE: An amazing portfolio in and of itself and a mouthful. I'm going to say that if I were to ask, are you responsible for all of those locations?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: So, I don't want to use the word responsible, because I think no one at any institution can tell you that they are responsible for all of the risk. I think my role, well, I know my role in this is more of a collaborator across the institution with all the stakeholders.
So, working with those partners, identifying an exposure, talking about those things that are not insurable. So, I would say it's a collaboration approach. It's definitely not a one person's job, and I could never take the credit for all of that.
TWANE: Wisely put, I think that quite frankly, if you're going to be a comprehensive risk manager, that you have to develop some sort of network or stakeholder commitment to assist us in managing risk, right? Because, I mean, just from a practical standpoint, that's a large footprint.
And I imagine that sometimes you just have no idea what possibly is going on in some of those locations because isn't impossible to be there all at one time. So smart positioning as it relates to how you are dedicated to managing your risk. So, what would you say is probably a thumbnail sketch of your journey to even becoming the risk manager for Cornell?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: Wow, lots of experience. And I don't want to even say lots of experience. I think one of the strengths of Nakeschi is, I am a personable risk manager. I believe it is really important when working across the institution that you build those relationships because I would say that is the only way you are able to. When things come up, you can get the answers that you need.
Working with the stakeholders. So, I would say building relationships is very important in this job. One of the greatest things I love about working in this industry, as well as the insurance industry, is the networking, the building of relationships.
It's important to build the relationship and have those key relevant stakeholders across the university when identifying exposures. And I would say from a standpoint of where I sit, because the university is involved in so much, that personal relationship is very important.
TWANE: Have you found that, that personal relationship has provided you with the kind of information and maybe even reporting back of risks that you may not have been aware of just because people feel that you are approachable?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: Absolutely. I know from my standpoint as a risk manager, when we look at risk and we talk about risk, part of my job is risk mitigation and risk treatment, which means whether it's purchasing insurance, whether it's contractual risk transfer.
But I think one of the things we have to think about is those things that are not necessarily insurable. Being able to communicate back to stakeholders and having them understand that. And I would say whether that can be good or bad sometimes.
What I know and what I've found is that there's a perception that there's the downside of risk, but there are so many opportunities that come out of risk that I would say stakeholders are not aware of. The other side of that is where there is downside, I think we are so creative in thinking about mitigation strategies to manage those risks that are uninsurable.
TWANE: Do you have an example for our listeners of some types of uninsurable risk that you have been able to review, provide an opinion about, and just say, maybe have you thought about this? Anything that comes off the top of your mind?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: So, I would say one of the key things today, if we think about higher ed and the current political landscape, and I would say some of the exposure even involved in that, a lot of that is not insurable.
So, it's leadership or stakeholders are dealing with how to mitigate that. How are we approaching it? What's the university's policy? What's in place? For example, you hear one of the big topics is the expressive speech across campuses. And I think depending on who you are, what institution you are, you take a different approach.
TWANE: Before we leave the concept of being emotionally intelligent, recognizing that it is better to be collaborative and develop stakeholder partnerships so you can get better risk coverage throughout your organization, do you have any suggested particular readings, books, or anything like that, that have maybe helped you personally as it related to developing emotional intelligence?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: So, I would say, Twane, there is not one book. The one thing that I would say I do lots of reading, whether it's from the daily RIMS, whether it's from the daily articles that come across higher ed.
I've taken pages out of many books, whether it's being personable, whether it's managing, whether it's collaborating across our institution, stakeholder communication, I would say all of that is very key in this role.
Another key thing is being transparent. I would say, as much as we don't like to hear the answer sometimes, it's very important that you just kind of just put it out there to the stakeholders for them to hear it.
TWANE: I agree. I think that you could not really articulate it any better. When I was managing risk for the city of Jacksonville, one of the things that I did to engender buy in and co-op from the directors and leaders was to provide them with reports about their loss history, about their particular experiences based upon their various departments and divisions. And it was amazing how they were completely unaware.
They were just used to getting an allocated amount of contribution to the risk management fund. And then all of a sudden, once they understood exactly how it worked and why, they were provided those numbers in contributions, it became much more important when there was a little skin in the game, as they say, to say, oh, so this is what's going on in our area, or this is why we're contributing this much.
So, I think that you bring up a very good point when you identify the fact that just communicating to the stakeholders and letting them know listen, the good, bad, and ugly, here's the reason why our rate is what it is and what you're going to have to contribute. And here's why.
NAKESCHI WATKINS: Yeah, I would agree. The data and then I would just say even the changes in the insurance landscape, I hear this all the time that I think sometimes the perception is everything is insurable. And that is not the case.
So, I would say informing those stakeholders, that it's not about insurance all the time. I always say insurance is a risk financing exercise. Everything is not insurable. So that would be the approach that I take.
TWANE: Well, let's switch reigns for just a moment. It's actually been a few years since we came from the height of the pandemic. Have you seen any change in strategy from your perch as it relates to how we had to handle things through the pandemic to now? Is it a little bit of back to normal, or has it changed your view on how to handle or manage risk in a more long-term way?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: It's interesting. Do I think we're back to normal? Maybe yes, maybe no. And I think that depends on who you are. What we learned from the pandemic from a risk management perspective is that you don't have to be on campus every day to do the job.
We've gone to-- at least some campuses have gone to three-day work weeks, two-day work weeks, a hybrid in-person model. So, I would say maybe that's one shift. I think you definitely have to be more strategic moving forward, I think because of the impact the pandemic had on, I would say, higher ed to continue to I would say inform the stakeholders.
Pre-pandemic where we are now. And then I think looking beyond. I think the other piece that we've learned is that if there were ever another pandemic, we could operate. And I would just say some schools did not stop operating. We just, for example, went from an in-classroom to online.
TWANE: Exactly. Quite frankly, from even a corporate standpoint, a lot of those things that you're bringing up are universally felt in their considerations for all of us as operating entities. There's a lot of similarities to that within the education arena as well.
So that's something to take into account. I know from my vantage point, I think that there's been a lot of talk about whether the pandemic was such a unique and unanticipated event. And quite frankly, I think a number of research results have indicated that not so much because they were actually some firms and some entities that were prepared for pandemics.
On top of that, there were other, much more localized exposures and pandemics that occurred. This one just happened to be a worldwide situation. So, I think it's impacted us all in a certain way. But I'm glad to know that, I mean, from an institutional standpoint and even from just educational risk manager standpoint that there's an idea and concept of we got to keep moving forward. We'll keep working with the changes and we'll see what happens in the future.
I do know this. We certainly can't get caught unaware any longer. That is, I think it's incumbent upon all of us to be a little bit more prepared in case the next event happens, which there's all kinds of projections of when that could and might be. But we'll stay away from that because we have no idea.
So thinking just for a moment on the last couple of questions I thought about, as far as education as a whole, do you have any kind of top concerns, things that are top of mind for you that you think are risk that you look at from an emerging standpoint or on the horizon that you like, we should be prepared to deal with this?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: So, I don't want to say major concerns. What I want to point out is that I work for an institution that is mission-driven, and a lot of that requires thinking outside of the box and being creative when coming up with a decision sometimes to make informed decision making about risk.
I don't think I have a concern, but I worry about the unknown, because we are a research institution, I think because we have so many bright minds here, you never know what professors, what researchers want to do.
So, I would say that would be number one. I would say the second piece is I worry about the political landscape and how higher ed continues to be a target. What does that mean for us moving forward? What does that look like?
And again, I think that is the unknown. We are mission driven. And that is really important. And I think from my perspective, I'm here to support the mission, the leadership, the stakeholders in whatever that may be. And again, that goes back to whether it's insurable, whether it's non-insurable, it's just understanding the mission and whatever that strategic focus is.
TWANE: And in fact, come to think of it, I mean, let's be honest. You're a part of the Cornellian community. You all have prestigious Nobel laureates amongst your tenured professorships and individuals who are world renowned. How does that impact your interplay with some things about managing risk for Cornell?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: I don't want to say it's difficult, but I would say sometimes it can be challenging because I think to meet that middle ground of, for example, what a particular professor could be doing research on and understanding, what's the impact to the institution? Whether it's insurable or not insurable, just understanding what that impact is.
And I think getting them to understand what's the impact, how it may impact their research. So, I would say challenging, but I would always defer back to my personality. I'm really personable. I will have a conversation with you. I will meet with you however many times you want to meet to just understand what's going on, and I think, what's the goal you're trying to achieve?
TWANE: Makes perfect sense. Well, why don't we do this? Let's wind it down with just those particular aspects, because you have astounding reputation in the community. You are well received, and you are personable for certain. So, what if you would-- or how would you describe for our listeners a little bit about your background and if any influence has had on you and your perspective on managing risk?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: My background has been in risk management. I would say probably my entire 17-year career, I've worked in various industries. I have networked and met some exciting women that have mentored me along the way and have helped me to get where I am today.
TWANE: And in that regard, as you're talking about being encouraged and mentored by various individuals, obviously, some particularly astounding people in your life and in your sphere of influence, how would you describe to someone who's interested in this discipline important mentorship can be?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: Mentorship is very important. I will tell you that this has been one of the most exciting career journeys that I think I ever expected. So, my undergraduate is in healthcare risk management, healthcare administration.
I remember my first job when I was interviewed, the person that I went to work for, and she's a great mentor even today in my life, she said this is insurance, but this is not what you went to school for.
And I think working with her, she really set a trajectory and expectation of just this role to where it's exciting. It's not the same thing every day. I've built some tremendous relationships in the industry that are lifelong friendships. And it's helped me to get where I am today.
I've been able to travel to different countries to get that experience as well. So, this has been rewarding for me. I would urge anyone, college students who are interested in this field to definitely find out, because it's truly rewarding.
TWANE: I will co-sign on that with anything that I could possibly put up as collateral. That is absolutely correct. Well, I have to ask you one final question before we go. And that is because this is our women in risk in education series, do you have any special advice for women who desire to be in a position of higher education risk management?
NAKESCHI WATKINS: So sure. I would say higher ed is definitely in its on lane, but I would say challenging, exciting because it's not the same thing every day. And not that I would say knock any other industry, but I just would say with higher ed, I have found such a commitment. I've been able to work on so many things and not just I would say, industry-specific because higher ed touches, I would say everything.
TWANE: Oh, wonderful. Well, folks, I want to say congratulations to Ms. Nakeschi Watkins for surviving her first podcast with me. You did an excellent job. And I just want to say thank you all. We appreciate your time and commitment to doing so.
And for those of you who are listening, hopefully, you were able to either take copious notes or listen and think about and ponder on some of the ideas and thoughts that were expressed here.
Recognize that you have been listening to WTW's U of Risk podcast series for wire women in risk in education. We are excited that you were able to listen. Hope that you got something out of it and look forward to your returning for our very next episode, and hope that you have a wonderful day.
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